Faith based threads

[Appleblossom]

I suspect changing that thread's name would alter the intention and direction of the thread and may upset people.

I support @Teej comments re spontaneity and interest based threads.  

I also think her discussion around conflict is excellent.

At the moment the person who started that thread is missing and I am concerned for her.  She is very vulnerable and isolated, so this could be bad timing and more bureacratic than therapuetic.

If the mods are concerned re religious minorities perhaps start topics on them and see if you can engage people who follow or are interested in other faiths ... eg Islam, Beddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, Daoism .... but there is always the chance somebody or some belief will be missed...

Working with a bottom up rather than top down approach may help the less well represented minorities, but dont forget that this forum is really in its early stages as a community and a bit of an experiment.  The Christian thread is a beautiful work in progress.

Btw my half chinese nephew and I had a wonderful day today.  He had not visited since he was about 8.  When I first tried to even mention race or ethnicity on the forum I was ticked off for being racist.  I understand the reason for zealous inclusion and political correctness, but more harm than good may arise by meddling with posts and what I would call a premature intervention.

Work on inviting others to engage, with diverse beliefs and good will. Allow new threads to evolve. That is a better way to community. This website could technically cope many more members and more threads, there need not be much conflict.  It also takes courage to post here and develop networks and friendships. Create openings, but rebadging is not a good look in my book.

Regards Apple

[Mazarita]

Hi @Lauz,

I agree with @Teej and @Appleblossom, especially on the 'bottom up' approach to the forum. That way it is about the members and the community, rather than the 'top down' visions of the organisation and individuals managing it, which can be an inhibiting thing rather than helpful. Keeping the forum about the members and community is also more empowering to us, and we are people who can especially benefit from this, given the stigma and low status that often goes with mental illness. 

Having said that, I do understand where you might be coming from. I am not religious and have to admit that I personally recoil when god is mentioned in conversations on the forum. It is a trigger for me. I have a fair bit of anger baggage about what I have seen and experienced in relation to religion in my life over time. I have explored a number of different spiritual traditions over my life, and do have a kind of personal spirituality which is a conglomeration of some of them, along with my own personal take on things, and I'm aware that when I discuss these things in discussion threads, it may be offputting or triggering to others. So I believe it goes in all directions and that, generally, we need to be tolerant of each other's differences, and walk away if there's something that's bothering us.

With the particular thread you mentioned, I think it was started because mentions of religion on various other threads were giving rise to a lot of conflict on the forum, and so the idea seemed to be to have a space where these things could be shared without so much trouble arising. I never go to the thread you mentioned, and that solves my problem. The only thing that continues to bug me is that the title of the thread is ALL IN CAPITALS, which makes it feel like the thread is shouting at people when it appears in 'recent posts'. For me personally, that comes across as a kind of evangelism, which I personally don't like in any spiritual approach. I also don't think it has any place on the forum really.

To kind of restate my first point, I believe the forum works best if it is allowed to evolve from how members actually use it. Even when I don't personally relate or even like the content of some discussion threads, I fully support members rights to as much free speech as possible, and believe strongly in the value of 'subcultural' communities on the forum.

Thanks for coming to us for discussion before proceeding with any changes on this.

[CheerBear]

Hi @Lauz and all.

I agree with Teej and others. I believe there is space for threads relating to specific religions as well as general faith based threads, even if I'd stay clear of either. I don't have any interest in participating in the thread that has been mentioned or in any faith based thread and will stay away from discussions involving religion, but I have no issue with threads that are specific to one religion.

It feels and seems to me that it would be far from inclusive to single out one topic (or discussions on one topic) and attempt to turn it into more general discussions. I think it would be better to continue to consider individual posts and the way they relate to the community guidelines, rather than focusing on a whole thread or discussion topic.

I had been tagged into that thread a few times a while ago and asked not to be anymore as I found it difficult to read. My request was well received and I feel the member and I both sorted it out quickly and well. However I understand it can be tricky to work through issues like this on the forum sometimes. Maybe it is worth opening up further discussions about how to respectfully and assertively communicate on the forum if you find yourself being brought into or involved in a discussion that you don't feel comfortable with. This could be an opportunity to further empower and enable people to use the forum in a way that works best for them.

Thanks for always being open to and encouraging of feedback Lauz.

[Lauz]

Hey everyone, 

The feedback we have gotten is really insightful (I know I have said that in both threads but I do mean it!). Please be aware, your perspective may differ from others here which is completely fine - just ensure you express that in a respectful way. The idea is not for anyone to be fearful of sharing their thoughts, even if they differ from others. We want everyone to feel safe and supported in their thoughts. When we don't have body language etc in communication, we have to be wary of the tone that may come across. 

This discussion is not about denying anyone a space for faith discussion and we are certainly not saying the thread is bad in any way. It is great that it helps people in many ways! We are looking at making sure it still promotes a space where other faiths can be welcome as well or how we can best do that moving forward, as well as acknowledging that there can be triggers around specific faiths for others. 

We are taking all your feedback on board so we can further explore this area as the forum expands and evolves. Really grateful for the range of feedback.

[Lauz]

Hi everyone,

We are really grateful for all the feedback so far. It’s important that when providing this kind of feedback that you still present neutrally in discussing specific religions or atheists. It’s really important that any level of feedback is welcomed here without fears, even if they differ from others. When we don't have body language etc in communication, we have to be wary of the tone that may come across. 

This discussion is not to highlight the author of the thread or to say the thread is causing an issue. We are looking at making sure it still promotes a space where other faiths can be welcome as well or how we can best do that moving forward.

There are a lot of good points here - particularly good insight around peoples feelings on getting involved in threads that they connect with and managing the ones that they possibly feel triggered with. Also interesting thought about the use of capitals in the thread title too. 

Just to remind everyone, there isn't a right or wrong perspective here and all points of views will be welcomed not only by the forums team but among members as is the way throughout the forums. 

[Mazarita]

Hi @Lauz and everyone, I have edited my earlier post as I feel it was unnecessarily offensive in the way I worded it at the time. As I mentioned, I have anger issues surrounding religion, related to past experiences. But I don't think it is helpful to express this on the forum in the way I did. I sincerely apologise to anyone who read that post and was offended. I wrote the post very early in the morning, before my senses were with me enough to censor hurtful words. I am aware that religion can be of great benefit and meaning to many people, and I do respect that, when I'm not so caught up in my own personal feelings about such matters. As I said in the post, I strongly believe in the right of everyone to express themselves on the forum about what is meaningful and positive in their lives. Though I may continue to make mistakes in the way I say things at times, overall my intention is to do better in my way of expressing things in the future. 

[Teej]

@Mazarita Total love and respect coming you’re way for the amazing beautiful person you are. 💜😘 I’ve cleaned up my post now too. I was in total emotion mind when I wrote mine, which I knew at the time, but felt it important to start a discussion off. 

@Lauz I do concur with an earlier statement about the title of threads not being in all capitals. I understand how this came about in this instance, however in the past there has been a couple of threads in all caps and they do bother me a bit. I’m not against an occasional all caps word or two in a post but it doesn’t feel right for a title. 

[s-jay]

Hi @Mazarita & @Teej - you are both obviously so thoughtful about all of this and we appreciate how deeply you are thinking about it all.

We are too.

Just to clarify, we didn't read anything offensive or even angry in either of your posts but of course up to you however you want to edit your posts.

And to all, just want to reiterate what Lauz said - thanks for you input and don't be afraid to put your opinion forward.

We've been taking it all on and thinking about what you've said, looking at what the research and evidence says and are looking forward to continuing this discussion with you..

We have heard and taken on board what you have said. I was originally very much in favour of moving towards faith based discussions instead of specific religions but now that I have heard you and read some research I can agree that threads on specific religions could continue. But at the same time, we could do more to build genuine connections with diverse communities and religions here. We agree with those who have mentioned here and emailed us about removing capitals from titles looking at shortening long titles.'
A big take away for me is to encourage all members, CMs, Mods etc to reflect on their values and feelings about this topic and notice their reactions and be conscious of past triggers & impacts and if they have a strong reaction to something to notice that and think about what it means..

That's where our thinking is at so far just wanted to share

[Mazarita]

Thanks, @s-jay. It's good to know you are considering all issues about this thoroughly, as well as keeping us informed about progress. Your care for the community is much appreciated. 

[Former-Member]

Hi all, For me personally I think the most important thing is that the threads are labelled clearly enough so that I can make a pre warned choice about reading or taking part in such discussions. By having clearly labelled threads about religion it really does maintain the safety of the forums while continuing to be inclusive and allowing people to express and support each other in ways that align with their values/belief systems.
I think that it is ok for different faiths to have different threads if people want or prefer.. i.e. if someone started a 'Buddhist Faith Support' (etc) i would that that is ok too, but also ensuring that the focus of the forums is on connecting and maintaining/supporting recovery from mental health.. not the promotion of religion itself... (not that i think that has happened at all just mentioning) if that makes sense...